[esa-t474] Your submission (fwd)
Mark Slater
slater at hep.phy.cam.ac.uk
Thu Dec 20 12:08:43 GMT 2007
At the moment then, I still only have Mike's additions to go on. Unless
anyone can suggest anything different by the weekend, I'll go with that
and see what the editor says. I'd prefer to get past this hurdle before
Christmas if possible :)
Thanks,
Mark
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007, Mike Hildreth wrote:
> I agree as well... Clearly, the review/editor didn't pay attention to ISR
> issues at LEP, either...
>
> cheers,
>
> mike
>
>
>
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007, Yury Kolomensky wrote:
>
> > I would agree with Eric. We can add a paragraph describing the impact of beam
> > energy measurement and other techniques to determine the spectrum that help
> > turn this into a physics tool. There is a sentence and a reference now;
> > expanding this to a paragraph would be sufficient. I think we can safely claim
> > that no other measurement can compete with precision. In the letter to the
> > editor, we can point out that this is the paper about instrumentation, not a
> > physics publication, so more detailed discussion is beyond the current scope.
> > It is even beyond the scope of the next paper.
> >
> > Yury
> >
> > On Dec 19, 2007, at 7:59 AM, Eric Torrence wrote:
> >
> > >Hi Stewart,
> > >
> > > I would try to argue to the editor and reviewer that
> > >the topic of this paper is a measurement of beam energy.
> > >The reviewer is correct in saying that there are other
> > >issues regarding the use of this device in the ILC to
> > >measure root(s) spectrum, but this is not the topic of
> > >the current work.
> > >
> > > This is NIM after all. When people write papers on
> > >drift chambers, they don't explain in detail what kind
> > >of physics measurements they are going to do with them.
> > >
> > > I would think that one intro paragraph (at most)
> > >discussing these issues in the broadest terms should be
> > >adequate.
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >-Eric
> > >
> > >On Dec 18, 2007, at 2:42 PM, stewart boogert wrote:
> > >
> > > >Dear Eric, Mark and T474,
> > > >
> > > >The reviewers comments are quite interesting and all quite beyond the
> > > >scope of the paper, which is principally machine physics.
> > > >
> > > >1) The peak of the spectrum is the most important feature with regards the
> > > >physics program. The luminosity spectrum at the collision point bounded at
> > > >the
> > > >top by the spectrometer measurement. In fact for M_t and M_h this is the
> > > >most important
> > > >feature. The effect of the luminosity spectrum is convoluted with the
> > > >threshold structure
> > > >being investigated, so the large energy loss beamstrahlung events are
> > > >suppressed and
> > > >only the peak really contributes.
> > > >
> > > >2) Absolutely no physics measurement (particle flow, or even more exotic
> > > >for
> > > >any physics process ) can provide a precision energy measurement at any
> > > >reasonable time scale. It is possible to measure the beam energy using
> > > >radiative returns to the Z but this analysis is incomplete and provides
> > > >energy
> > > >measurements at similar frequencies to physics rate.
> > > >
> > > >3) The measurement of Bhabha scattering can provide information on
> > > >the momentum imbalance between the two colliding beams on a more rapid time
> > > >scale, but this method as formulated in all treatments does not reconstruct
> > > >the collision
> > > >centre of mass energy, only the fractional energy loss from the maximum
> > > >beam energy.
> > > >Of course then one requires the energy spread of the machine too. From
> > > >Bhabhas the momentum
> > > >mismatch between the beams \Delta p can be measured not what p actually is.
> > > >
> > > >4) I would think that more important comments are that the energy loss from
> > > >the measurement
> > > >location and just before collision are more important as it is quite
> > > >difficult to measure this
> > > >effect. Bino is simulating now, but we do not yet know the answer.
> > > >
> > > >I can definitely add come text to the paper to this effect if the reviewer
> > > >agrees.
> > > >There is little published in this area, something Eric. Mike and I have
> > > >been trying
> > > >to correct for a while but without success.
> > > >
> > > >I'll add a little more text to Mike's paragraph in a few hours and send
> > > >around.
> > > >
> > > >Cheers,
> > > >Stew
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On 14 Dec 2007, at 18:02, Eric Torrence wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Hi Mark,
> > > > >
> > > > > I think Mike has already given some good pointers
> > > > >on this, but just to reiterate it should be clearly
> > > > >stated that measuring the mean beam energy before
> > > > >collisions is a necessary (but certainly not sufficient)
> > > > >part of determining the collision spectrum needed for
> > > > >the ILC program. For both direct reconstruction like
> > > > >M_H and threshold scans like M_t, the peak of the
> > > > >spectrum is the most important feature. There are
> > > > >plenty of corrections, including energy loss in magnets
> > > > >and beamstrahlung, which need to be applied, but without
> > > > >a calibrated mean beam energy measurement you have no hope.
> > > > >
> > > > >Regards,
> > > > >-Eric
> > > > >
> > > > >On Dec 14, 2007, at 3:18 AM, Mark Slater wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >Dear All,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Here are the first comments from the reviewer. Does anyone have a good
> > > > > >answer to this?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Mark
> > > > > >
> > > > > >---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > >Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:08:00 -0000
> > > > > >From: nim at lbl.gov
> > > > > >To: slater at hep.phy.cam.ac.uk
> > > > > >Subject: Your submission
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Nuclear Inst. and Methods in Physics Research, A
> > > > > >Title: Cavity BPM System Tests for the ILC Energy Spectrometer
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Dear Dr. Slater,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Thank you for your recent submission to Nuclear Inst. and Methods in
> > > > > >Physics Research, A.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Before proceeding further with the review process, I would like you to
> > > > > >address in detail the following issue. Beamstahlung will spread the
> > > > > >energy of the electrons and positrons at the collision point by an
> > > > > >amount
> > > > > >far greater than the precision of the instrument that you propose.
> > > > > >Indeed,
> > > > > >for the purposes of data analysis new approaches, such as particle flow
> > > > > >analysis, must be developed because one cannot balance momentum in the
> > > > > >beam direction. Your treatment of this issue should speak to how the
> > > > > >information from the proposed instrument would be used as an input to
> > > > > >the
> > > > > >new physics analysis approaches.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Sincerely,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >William A. Barletta
> > > > > >Editor
> > > > > >Nuclear Inst. and Methods in Physics Research, A
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >>>>_______________________________________________
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> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Hildreth | e-mail: mikeh at undhep.hep.nd.edu
> Department of Physics | mikeh at fnal.gov
> 225 Nieuwland Sciences Hall | telephone: 574-631-6458 (office)
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